The Debt Free Doctor, Jeff Anzalone

Our guest for today is a full-time practicing periodontist in Louisiana. After completing dental school and a residency at LSU, our guest owed close to $300,000 in student loans, along with other consumer debt. Two weeks before graduation, a job offer fell through, leaving himself, his wife, and a two-month-old nowhere to go. This led him to start a practice from scratch, and after seven long and intentional years, becoming debt-free.

Let’s dive right in and learn from Jeff Anzalone on how to start our debt-free journey.

[00:01 – 13:33] Opening Segment 

• We introduce our guest, Jeff Anzalone
• Jeff talks about his background
• Jeff's bad investing advise

[13:34 – 25:05]  Sussing Out All Your Options

• Jeff talks about his first deal to get into real estate
• What to look for given the current economic cycle

[25:06 – 24:35] Closing Segment

• Jeff shares his experiences as a full-time doctor starting out investing
• Deciding what your goals are and choosing the vehicle to go with 
• Final thoughts
• Jeff's book recommendations:

Die With Zero

Tweetable Quotes:

“learn and do your part and get to know these people you're working with. Don't put your trust in a website.” – Jeff Anzalone

“And I realized that you know, my wife and I and I think it's really important that you if you're married and even if you're not married, come up with your specific goals. – Jeff Anzalone

“really be specific with it. And that's where I tell people to start. And then from there, you work backward.” – Jeff Anzalone

“I'm the type of person that I get little bits and pieces from people. But I have my own opinion. I don't follow, you know, if every single thing and I don't follow everything.” – Jeff Anzalone

Connect with Jeff! See the links below:

Go to his LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram pages to connect with Jeff. Visit his Website, Income Guide, and Podcast.

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Transcript

Anthony Vicino: [00:00:14] Hello and welcome to Multifamily Investing Made Simple, the podcast, it's all it's about all about taking the complexity out of real estate investing so that you can take action. Today, I am your host, Anthony. Sometimes I struggle with my words. Masino joined as always by Dan Silver-tongued Krueger. I don't think

Dan Kreuger: [00:00:32] I'm going to just sit here judging you on your stutters.

Anthony Vicino: [00:00:34] I heard you and I heard you snicker. That's not a supportive environment for me to thrive in.

Dan Kreuger: [00:00:40] Daniel, I like to laugh at you when you fall down.

Anthony Vicino: [00:00:45] I mean, the funniest I it maybe makes me a bad person, but I laughed the hardest when I watched those videos, like where people are falling down or, you know, not getting hurt. I don't want people getting hurt. But when somebody slips on a banana peel, it's kind of funny. So that's all besides the point because today nobody's slipping on banana peels. Today we're talking real estate with a very interesting guest, actually, because a lot of the guests that we have on, you know, they're in real estate. They're focused on multifamily or some other asset class real estate, but they haven't really narrowed down the niche of who they're targeting and who they're working with specifically. And today's guest, I think, has done that better than everybody else, except for Savanah Networth, Nurse Arroyo. Today we have Dr. Jeff Anzalone, who's a full-time practicing periodontist in the great state of Louisiana, author, and founder of Debt Free Dr. Dotcom. His focus is on helping doctors and other high-income professionals create passive income from real estate so that they can stop trading their time for money. So if you can't figure out who this guy is about just from that buyout, who he's targeting, and who he's helping, then you just weren't paying attention. But enough out of me. I'm going to sit quietly for the rest of the episode. Dan, Jeff, you guys take it away.

Dan Kreuger: [00:02:01] Welcome, Jeff.

Jeff Anzalone: [00:02:03] Thanks, Dan. Thanks, Anthony. Appreciate you guys having me on the show.

Dan Kreuger: [00:02:07] He's not actually leaving.

Anthony Vicino: [00:02:09] I'll stick around. The guests, the guests at home, the audience are listening to the dancing. Just really actually leave.

Dan Kreuger: [00:02:15] No, yeah. But just got up and walked out of the room.

Anthony Vicino: [00:02:17] You just walked out. I dropped the mic. Jeff, tell us a little bit about yourself. Like we understand I had to look up. Dan didn't know either. We both had to look up to a periodontist was. But we figured it out. But tell us, how did you make the transition? Because you're still doing periodontal medicine and how did you make that transition to real estate? What was that journey for you? Looking like

Jeff Anzalone: [00:02:39] A think. It all started back a few years ago when we were snow skiing and I got off the lift. And one of those kids, you know, those crazy kids, if you ski before cut in front of me. So to avoid killing both them and myself, I fell. And when I fell, you know, when you fall, you automatically put your hands down and did a little injury to my wrist. Luckily, it was minor, but that got me thinking. OK, what if I couldn't use my hands and wrists to work? Because our whole family is dependent on my income coming in, and I think that really started the process. I mean, of course, I did. I didn't have a clue where to start or what the answer was. But that got me thinking. I probably need to start looking at it. Other sources of income, while still healthy enough to do it just in case something happens, which you know, and then fast forward years and years later, which eventually got me to this point now.

Anthony Vicino: [00:03:52] We were just talking about this because, in one of my other businesses, we have a guy, an employee who just recently had an incident where he's not going to work for a couple of months and he might love his job. And you probably love your job, too. And we talk about this all the time. You can love your W-2, but if you don't have multiple streams of income, then you are very vulnerable if something were to happen. You say you get fired. There's a, you know, market downturn, you're downsized or more likely. And a lot of instances, just like you step in front of a bus one day and now you're laid up for three or four months and you can't work, can you survive in that scenario? And I think a lot of people haven't really put enough thought into that scenario, especially probably the the demographic that you work with, which is high earning doctors and like other professions where, you know, when you're making a lot of money, the last thing you think about is what happens when that money stops coming in

Jeff Anzalone: [00:04:48] At an investor. Actually, invest with me last year, an orthopedic surgeon. And he's I think he's in his early 40s. One day in the operating room. He just he just froze. He just stopped, you know, couldn't move for like a few seconds. And he didn't really think much of it, but it progressively started getting worse to the point to where he would just almost blackout while, you know, operating on somebody, which, as you can imagine, is not a good thing as an orthopedic surgeon. Some come to find out that he was suffering from a rare seizure disorder. So, you know, forty-three forty-four years old, he was basically told you couldn't work anymore. So you just, you know, you never know. And he had all of his money. Tied up mainly in a 401k that he worked from other hospitals and didn't really know where to start, so you just, you know, as you said, you never know what could happen.

Dan Kreuger: [00:05:54] Yeah, I think a lot of people tend to not want to think about the worst-case scenario and end up not really planning for it. So, I mean, luckily, even though it wasn't a good situation, you kind of had a little bit of a scare there that kind of made you think, oh, wait, I need a backup plan. Some kind of cure is what after that happened, was it immediately afterward that you just got online and started Googling, you know, ways that you can develop additional income, or like how did you move from that incident to actually get into your first deal? Curious what that transition looked like or that that process.

Jeff Anzalone: [00:06:26] That's a great question. I love to read probably four to five books a month. So I just started searching for books about extra income. Didn't know again, I didn't know if I was going to start an online business or do some sort of coaching or, you know, I had no clue. And actually, one of the books that I read, I actually read back when it was published in 1996 when I was a senior college, shows you my age, probably one you're familiar with the millionaire next door. And, you know, of course, you know, it's been over twenty-five years since they've. Since he wrote the book, you know, unfortunately, he passed away, Tom Stanley in twenty fifteen, I believe got hit by a drunk driver. But his daughter, Sarah Stanley Fallow, I believe she wrote The Next Millionaire next door, sort of a follow up to her father's book and who basically just took. You know, kind of looked at, OK, well, yeah, back in the mid to late 90s, this is what it took to Be a Millionaire, but hey, twenty, fifteen, twenty, sixteen. When that other book came out, was a lot of those things still present is still sort of the standard to become a millionaire. And I noticed a couple of things there. Out of the million, about 90 percent of the millionaires had real estate in their portfolio and I think they had an average of three to seven streams of income. Well, which told me no one didn't have real estate in my portfolio except my house, which nobody's paying me rent. And I only have one stream of income. Hmm. So I think that got me started down the path. OK, well, maybe I should start looking into real estate.

Dan Kreuger: [00:08:30] I love it. I think if you to your point, if you look back at like how the majority of wealthy people have accumulated their wealth, even back beyond that book to the beginning of civilization, like the oldest business model in and accumulating wealth has always been real estate, whether it's just owning land like a king and, you know, renting it out to all the peasants, I guess, you know, farm

Anthony Vicino: [00:08:55] Serfs, serfs, it's nicer than peasants,

Dan Kreuger: [00:08:57] Serfs, that sort of thing, you know, all the way till today where it's still your property or a house or something like that. The same simple business model has been the tried and true way to accumulate wealth and generate income. So, I mean, it's not broken. Don't fix it. It's kind of my philosophy. No, it's old and simple. It's not really the newest, shiniest, most exciting thing, but it works. And it's got a really long track record.

Anthony Vicino: [00:09:23] The oldest things tend to be the truest things. They have the most staying power for a reason. And so before we dive even deeper into your story, because I think there's there's a couple of interesting threads I want to pull on here. But before we get to that, I want to do the bad investing advice for the week, because before the show, we were talking about some options of things that we could talk about. And you kind of alluded to one of those. And so I'm curious to get your take. What is your bad investing advice for the week?

Jeff Anzalone: [00:09:52] It would probably be an article that I wrote years ago about one of my first investments was a crowdfunding investment back in, I believe, twenty seventeen. It was with realty shares online who have since gone under. But I lost fifty thousand dollars in that deal, which as that's probably a bad investment of the week,

Anthony Vicino: [00:10:17] That's pretty bad. Yeah, that's rough.

Jeff Anzalone: [00:10:20] And the end of the bad investment advice. Part of that would be I had no clue what I was doing. I was just looking for the property online. I was putting my trust. So I guess my advice would be just because somebody put something online about what the pictures of the property look like and what their, quote, expected returns are, learn and do your part and get to know these people you're working with. Don't put your trust in a website. That would be my advice for the week.

Dan Kreuger: [00:10:53] We say we reiterate a very similar message all the time that you can anyone can put out a pro forma that says whatever they want. All right. You can make it say a hundred and fifty percent annual return like it doesn't have to do is type it into a deck that you're creating. So really, I think the thing that people need to be looking at is what's the track record of this operator? They say they're going to produce X, but let's look back and see how long they've been doing this, how many projects they've executed. What were the pro forma numbers on those projects and what were the actuals? I think that's like that extra layer that a lot of people kind of skip. So but that's very valuable learning advice or those very valuable learning experience, I should say because it sounds like you've never made that mistake again. No.

Anthony Vicino: [00:11:41] You know, it's a lot of people, think passive investing means it won't require work. And there may be really used to the environment of investing in the stock market through the four one K where they don't understand what they're investing in any way. And so they're just picking companies that they know the name of or, you know, they're like, oh, Elon Musk, I know that guy. I'll buy this thing.

Dan Kreuger: [00:12:01] And so that's about it on CNBC and said, this is the next hot thing. Exactly.

Anthony Vicino: [00:12:05] And so they're investing in a very shallow, I would say, misinformed or uninformed type of way. And when you take that to real estate, you can get burned in the same ways that you can get burned in the stock market. But it's unnecessary. You know, in the stock market site, it's a very complex beast that nobody understands how the market's going to move the real estate. And the whole purpose of this podcast is to show you that it's fairly simple to understand how all the levers work together. So if you just put in the time at the front to understand how this machine works, it won't take a ton of work, but it will pay huge dividends down the road because you'll be able to look at investors or operators, their deals and performance and assess whether or not this deal actually makes sense if it's something that they could actually achieve. And I'm very wary of crowdfunding sites for the very reason that you pointed out there, which is that realty shares, which is one of the biggest of its kind at the time, was here one day and then gone the next day. And so crowdfunding sites are still in this very new adolescent phase where they haven't really proven themselves out long term. And so I'm still very hesitant to encourage people to go that route quite yet. I like one of the benefits of investing on Main Street is that you get to know the operators that are running the building. You can go touch the building and you can go touch the operator like their actual people and their actual assets.

Dan Kreuger: [00:13:27] You know you don't have. A touch the operator likes is actually strongly discouraged.

Anthony Vicino: [00:13:32] Don't go touching your operator unless they have

Dan Kreuger: [00:13:34] Consented, unless they ask you to. Hey, Jeff, I'm curious, like, what was the first deal after you kind of decided that you want to start developing additional income streams? You read the millionaire next door. You read the follow-up book by the daughter, assuming you read a bunch more as well. Once you kind of narrowed down on the real estate game, was that reality shares the first foray. Was there something else that you did actively first or what did that look like?

Jeff Anzalone: [00:14:02] I believe it was a patch of land dot com, no deal like a debt deal with just I think it was a house that somebody was remodeling in Florida like a 12-month straight debt deal, was paying like 10, 11 percent back then. And I don't know, a couple of thousand bucks were and I did a few of those, which led up to the first equity deal. And Oklahoma, which was the one with realty shares. So those were the first notes of pretty much the first four or five deals that were crowdfunding. And I realized that you know, my wife and I and I think it's really important that you if you're married and even if you're not married, come up with your specific goals. Yeah. That you're trying to accomplish. But so, for instance, people think, well, should I be an active or passive investor? Well, one of our goals was to may not work more hours, get a second job, or anything like that, which, as you know, being an active investor requires all of that. So that pretty much just not active investing out right now. I'm not saying that I won't do that in the future, but right now. So that just helps guide you through the process.

Anthony Vicino: [00:15:25] Yeah, we talk about this constantly, it's like, what's your outcome, what's your desired and the state, and then working back from there to make sure that you're on the right trajectory. So as you were, it sounds like you were sussing out in the early days all these different options, you know, like looking at land investing. And then, you know, we talked a little bit about hospitality just before we went on the air. But like, how did your thesis around different asset classes or business models, how has it grown and evolved as you've kind of progressed down this path?

Jeff Anzalone: [00:15:55] Again, it starts with what we're looking for. And as a father of two teenagers, a more conservative person, I don't want something really risky. So I'm not going to go now. So, for instance, about three years ago, I had a local investor that was building a surge entertainment park, which at that time was new. Drew Brees is an investor, you know, being from Louisiana. So, of course, Drew can lose some money. But, you know, that's not that big of a deal. But Jeff does. It's a bigger deal. So, again, having my goals, I knew that, you know. Yeah, that was a potential for high return. It's doing very well now, but the risk was also high. So I stay away from investments like that. I want something that, you know, my criteria, that it's conservative, it's lower risk, a lower return, but it's cash flowing, it's occupied and it has a track record. So I know as soon as day one when I'm investing in it, I'll start getting a return so that those are the assets that I tend to look for versus the higher risk. New investment, new construction deals.

Dan Kreuger: [00:17:16] So I'm curious, Jeff, with your current, you know, full-time job and your focus on helping, you know, busy high-income professionals like doctors and dentists and people kind of in similar fields as you were doing all of that, what types of deals are you looking at right now? Because you're still active in your main job. Right. And you're working with all these other people. So I'm assuming that you don't have a ton of time to go out there hunting for new opportunities. I'm curious what your focus is right now, what asset class, what areas, what types of things you're looking for, given where we're at in the current economic cycle.

Jeff Anzalone: [00:17:58] But typically, the majority of our assets are. Typically, B, C, plus class multifamily, more of a value add an option where I like to invest to where I have a part of the upside to when they sell. I'm pretty excited about the first deal that I did. I think back in twenty seventeen was with Ashcroft. That deal is actually in the process of being sold now. So that's the first one that I bring home for the cyclone. I'm getting to see how that works and you know, the process. So that's, that's, that's pretty cool to see that and experience that.

Dan Kreuger: [00:18:41] But you might be asking how that one is shaping up now that you're kind of getting right to the end and you probably know what things would be coming in at as far as IRR and cash and cash is that I'm hoping that was better than your realty shares. Yeah. And it you know, John knows what he's doing.

Jeff Anzalone: [00:18:58] So thankfully the only change in that one was it went from monthly to quarterly distributions last year. But other, you know, that was because of the pandemic and they wanted to conserve cash. But other than that, it's pretty much-been spot on to what was expected returns. So I'm going to take those proceeds and then invest them in something else. But they were going to be setting up to where, if you wanted to you know if you wanted to ten thirty-one and to another one of their investments, they were they had that process. You could either do that or, you know, get your money profit and move on yourself. But, you know. I think you know, one of the smartest investors out there in the past has been Warren Buffett, you know, he's always said how, you know, when there's blood in the streets, you know what happens? People panic and freak out, but the calm people don't. And with what happened during the 20, 20 and still kind of happened and now, you know, people have panicked. But then you know, one of the groups that I've partnered with, they have invested in hotels in the past. We talked a little bit before the show about about that. And they feel that that is a very good asset class to look at now. And you can actually Google it now. And there are several big-name sites that are talking about it and they're talking about host hotel stocks.

Jeff Anzalone: [00:20:38] We just got back from traveling this past weekend. The place that we were staying, the whole area was it was very, very full. You know, it just depends on, I guess, what area in the country that you live in. But think about it. You know, people have been cooped up for a year. They have been itching to get out to travel. You have the government pump pumping in all this money to people. So, you know, people say, hey, you know, let's go have fun, let's get out. And the hotel that they own in North Carolina went from 30 to 35 percent occupied for several months to now, it's close to 90 percent occupied. And they're seeing that a lot of these big companies that had a string of hotels have lost their tail and they're trying to get out from under some of these hotels. And they're seeing some really, really good bargains right now on that. And, you know, these are set up similar to, you know, the investments. You know, there's a whole period. There are distributions, there's a profit, you know when they sell still like a five to the seven-year whole time. So it's very similar to the past, what we're used to as multifamily passive investors. So really excited about learning more about that and looking to invest in those potentially this year.

Dan Kreuger: [00:22:13] Yeah, I think there's a lot of pent-up demand to your point. That's going to be. I know how to put it, there's just got to go somewhere, wants to travel and everyone's loaded up with cash that they haven't been able to go and spend yet. So I think all the travel that didn't happen in twenty is going to happen as soon as things go back to normal. And that means that you know, that occupancy is going to be high and those rates are going to be going sky high. And I think the nice part about hotels is you can change your rent every single night. If you get some people in there and you underpriced things a little bit, you always have a chance to re-initiate that monthly rent. Whereas unlike, like with an apartment building, you get someone in there on a 12-month lease, find out after the fact that, oh, you probably could have gotten some more money in the hotel business. You can mark that to market basically every single night. So it's a much more fluid investment in that regard. You can make sure things are priced to a tee at very, very frequent intervals.

Anthony Vicino: [00:23:10] And the really interesting thing about the hospitality sector is that I think we can all agree that hospitality is not going away like it was taken away from everybody for the last year. But fundamentally, human behavior hasn't changed our desire to go travel and have vacations and be entertained. It's still there. That demand still exists. But if you can get an asset right now from a distressed seller because they just weren't able to ride through the rough patch, that was the last year, they can't make it through until things really start to come back online. Well, then you have an opportunity now to go into the bloody street and get yourself a pretty good deal banking on that one you bought on a really good basis. And then to that, there's going to be a surge in demand over the next year or two. And so, all in all, I think the conventional wisdom of running into or running into the fire rather than out of the fire is, I think, a good idea, in this case, because like we're seeing the same thing here in the Twin Cities like certain neighborhoods and areas were very badly affected in the last year due to covid and like the civil unrest that we had during the summer. And a lot of investors left those areas as people leave, which represents an opportunity to step in and find a really good deal. So I think there's going to be a lot of that in the next year.

Jeff Anzalone: [00:24:28] Yep, I fully agree, and as you said, it depends on what area of the country that you live in this morning. I had a patient that's an ICU nurse here in town and we're located in north Louisiana. And I said, well, how are things going? The hospital, ICU? She said, I can't tell you the last time we had a patient treated for covid in the ICU, whereas this time last year they were struggling to find beds. So, you know, that's really thankful that things are looking up and hopefully for the country and we can get back to some our normal fairly soon.

Anthony Vicino: [00:25:06] Mm-hmm. I agree. So, you know, you you're like this full-time periodontist. You work in this career. You're starting you made this transition to start bringing in these alternative income streams for somebody who's in a similar position as you. But maybe a couple of years behind, let's say this winter, they were out skiing and they took their spill and they had that moment, that light bulb went off like, oh, I need to do something. Where should they start? What questions should they be asking? And what should their journey forward look like? Because real estate can be really daunting, because there are so many avenues, there are so many ways forward. What would your recommendation there be?

Jeff Anzalone: [00:25:44] And it's a great question. And that's one of the ones that I ask people that join our passive investor's circle on our website. I created it. It's free, but it's just for people that want to know, they want more than just blog articles. They want to actually maybe take some action and learn. So I ask them, what do they want? And be honest with you. Ninety-nine percent of them don't know what they won't like. Well, I want some passive income. OK, how much? I don't know, I mean, it's they don't have a clue, so it's almost like me going out to you or my wife. Where do you want to go? I don't know. Where do you want to go, Mike? And then when I do decide, then when I'm here, then when I do decide, OK, why don't we go here to eat? Well, why do you always get to pick the place? It's just like, man, I can't win for anything, you know. So be specific. I mean, really write down what you won't you know, I want to retire or have the ability to retire in five years or ten years.

Jeff Anzalone: [00:26:53] And I want to replace my income or I want to replace my monthly expenses with passive income. And it's ten thousand dollars a month or whatever. I mean, really be specific with it. And that's where I tell people to start. And then from there, you work backward. You know, that's what financial planners, they do it sort of the other way around, you know, they they they do all this stuff and tell you you need all this and they tell you this huge number. So, OK, now I've got to work for 40 years to try to get seven million dollars accumulated with this guy, who doesn't matter if I make money or not during the year, he's still going to get paid. So it's just another way to look at investing, and if you want to work for 40 years and you don't mind that, that's great. I'm not telling people not to do it. But if you want an option. For me, it's been a real estate path, and I'm really glad that I found it.

Anthony Vicino: [00:27:52] I mean, it's about

Dan Kreuger: [00:27:54] Extremely scalable business model and we get down to it really doesn't compare with anything else in that regard. It's a fairly simple model. And once you kind of gets that down, you can scale it up. And if you're a passive investor, you know, in the open seat on these types of deals, you know, beyond that kind of initial learning curve that Andy mentioned before and you kind of alluded to this group that you're working with, you know, once you get past that initial hump of kind of understand the business model, that's the work from there. The amount of time it takes to analyze a deal that came across your desk is pretty minimal. So it's amazing, resourceful. I don't think a lot of people really know it's really out there, which I'm sure is something that you've experienced in your sphere as well. This option, something other than a Rietz or going out and buying a house to rent out is something that I think a lot of people just aren't aware of is an option. Yep.

Anthony Vicino: [00:28:51] So that brings us to about the top of the episode here, guys, where before we get out of here, I want to talk about books, because earlier when before we went life, I asked you I mentioned we need a book recommendation. I saw your eyes dart down to what I assume is like a bookshelf. And then you mentioned you read like four to five books a month. And I'm like, yeah, this guy's got some books. So what is your top book that you would recommend to us today? It doesn't have to be real estate could be business. It could be something in life. But what's really moved you recently.

Jeff Anzalone: [00:29:25] Really rich dad. Poor Dad

Dan Kreuger: [00:29:30] That.

Jeff Anzalone: [00:29:32] Yeah, actually it's a book that I make a joke about it, but I just finished it on our vacation. It was written by a previous hedge fund manager, Bill Perkins, and I kiddingly tell my wife that she co-wrote it, called Die with nothing, doing a really good, really good job helping me do that. But it's man, it's you know, with anything. I don't you know, if it's Dave Ramsey or Grant Cardon or Robert Kusaka or whatever, I'm the type of person that I get little bits and pieces from people. But I have my own opinion. I don't follow, you know, if every single thing and I don't follow everything. The single thing that he says. But, man, it's just a great way. To look at life and how experiences and breaks it down into you got free time. Money and your health. And those are the three things you have to work with you and depending on if you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 60s, 70s, whatever, you're going to have more or less of those. And it's just a great way of looking at where you are right now. You know, I'm in my mid-40s. Well, I love to ski, but, you know, we think about, OK, well, I'm going to save up all this money. And when I retire, when I'm in my 70s, I'm going to do all the skiing. Well, no, you're not. I mean, you're not going to be able to ski in your 70s like you can in your 30s and 40s and 20s. So it's just a way to he teaches you how to look at things and balance them and. OK, well, you need to take some, you know, money from his goal is to have you literally die with nothing. To enjoy life, to have experiences and how to do that,

Dan Kreuger: [00:31:25] So have to live like a Scrooge. Yeah, enjoy yourself.

Anthony Vicino: [00:31:29] So you're saying I'm doing it wrong. Now, I I've heard about this book before. I've never actually picked it up. But now I'm going to have to because it's a thing that I struggle with is finding that balance. I'm an I go really hard one way or the other. In my 20s, I spent very much living that freestyle, and now I very much more frugal hoarding. And I think, Dan, you probably fall a bit into that category, too, and Liz helps pull you out of that and live a better you.

Dan Kreuger: [00:31:59] Yes. Yeah. She's the reason that I am a more balanced individual than I would be if she were not around would just be all work productivity and no fun kind of defeats the purpose of accumulating wealth. Right.

Jeff Anzalone: [00:32:12] So my oldest son, he's 16. So we have technically two more summer vacations with him and my other one for more. So you have to kind of look at things like that too, you know, OK, well, why am I going to change out on stuff now when seven to 10 years later they're gone and then I'll have more money. But OK, well, great.

Dan Kreuger: [00:32:33] You don't want to just sit in a room with your money and stare at it by yourself? No, it's not going to be any good.

Jeff Anzalone: [00:32:38] It's just a different way to look at life, you know? And, you know, one of his things says that people wait until they die in their 80s or 90s to give their kids money, which they're usually in their 60s. Who needs money in their 60s? Your kids need the money between ages twenty-six and thirty-five. So his recommendation is OK, earmarked, however much you're going to give your kids, give it to them within that time frame. That's it. That's their money. And then you have what's left and you can enjoy yourself. So there's, there's, there's, there are just different little tidbits he has like that which you never think about that. But it's cool. And he has a really cool story in there about his forty-fifth birthday blowout. So I won't spoil that for people. They want to read the book

Dan Kreuger: [00:33:27] Now because I have that one.

Anthony Vicino: [00:33:28] That's it. Yeah. It's a really cool perspective and it's something that I think we can all take something from. Say, I appreciate you sharing that Geoff. That's awesome. All right. So before we, before we open up the cage and let you back out into the wild, Jeff, where can people get a hold of you? Where can they reach you if they want to join? You mentioned the passive investor's circle. Where can they get this information

Jeff Anzalone: [00:33:49] Online and be the best spot, debt-free dotcom, and actually put together a free passive income guide so they can get that a debt-free dot com forward slash free God. Awesome.

Anthony Vicino: [00:34:04] So one more time, debt-free, D-R, dotcom, that's debt-free, doctor, doctor, short of their abbreviated, I guess, is the fancy way of saying them. But yeah, once more, Jeff, I just want to express my appreciation for having you for taking the time to come join us, because I think a lot of people in your position where high net worth individuals are high earners or doctors or, you know, all these people, they they don't know. One of the things I've discovered is that they're not super financially literate. And a lot of cases, just because you can make a lot of money doesn't mean that you know what you're doing with your money. And exactly. Wealth does not equal income. So for those that they can't see on the video, Jeff has this great whiteboard with all these little things on the back of it for I would highly recommend you go watch the video because there's some good stuff in there. But I think it's really awesome that you're taking an active step towards helping those individuals who don't even realize may be that they need the help yet and showing them that this vehicle is accessible. So kudos to you. And that's going to do it for us here, guys, that multifamily investing made simple, we appreciate you. I want to thank you for taking your time and joining us here today. And we'll catch you guys next week. Until next time. Thanks, Jeff.